ERASER V6.0.7.1893 REVIEW 08-05-2010

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ERASER V6.0.7.1893 REVIEW 08-05-2010

Postby Bill3 » Sat May 08, 2010 9:09 pm

:mrgreen: Hope this helps.

:lol: GENERAL OBSERVATIONS

1 Large download and installation including Net Framework, so obviously a very sophisticated program. Make sure you switch off your security, and do not use the computer during process.
2 Aesthetically pleasing interface, well done, no ugly black.
3 Program is seriously faster, well done again.
4 Interface quite different to use from old versions, but that's easily learn't.
5 Runs without any glitches, well done again.

:!: SHORTFALLS

1 Auto shutdown is an absolute MUST, AND IT WAS FORGOTTEN.
2 Auto creation of a Restore Point after " Erase Unused Disc Space ", is an absolute MUST, AND IT WAS FORGOTTEN.
3 Auto creation of a Log File is an absolute MUST, AND IT WAS FORGOTTEN.
4 Facility to " Save Log File " is an absolute MUST, AND IT WAS FORGOTTEN.
5 Log file items need descriptions abbreviated, because they are so long that you cannot read the important part at the end.

:? QUERIES

1 Does the new version require less or more resources to run ?.
2 With Net Framework in the new version, would it be better to advise people with old computers. to stick to the old version 5.8.7 ?.

:D CONCLUSION

Another brilliant Eraser, albeit with some trivial shortfalls, that I'm sure will be included in a future version.

:mrgreen: Regards Bill3.
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Re: ERASER V6.0.7.1893 REVIEW 08-05-2010

Postby Joel » Sat May 08, 2010 10:29 pm

Thanks for the review.

Bill3 wrote: :!: SHORTFALLS

1 Auto shutdown is an absolute MUST, AND IT WAS FORGOTTEN.
That's a deliberate design decision, this will be worked on and replaced with a service to get around UAC constraints.
Bill3 wrote:2 Auto creation of a Restore Point after " Erase Unused Disc Space ", is an absolute MUST, AND IT WAS FORGOTTEN.
I don't know, is it?
Bill3 wrote:3 Auto creation of a Log File is an absolute MUST, AND IT WAS FORGOTTEN.
It is created.
Bill3 wrote:4 Facility to " Save Log File " is an absolute MUST, AND IT WAS FORGOTTEN.
You can copy and paste the log file to another application of your choice.
Bill3 wrote:5 Log file items need descriptions abbreviated, because they are so long that you cannot read the important part at the end.
Double-click on the message.
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Re: ERASER V6.0.7.1893 REVIEW 08-05-2010

Postby DavidHB » Sat May 08, 2010 10:35 pm

This is a thoughtful and constructive review, and, even as a committed Eraser user, I found it helpful. Thank you.

In the same constructive vein, some responses to points you make, and to your final questions.

Bill3 wrote: Auto shutdown is an absolute MUST, AND IT WAS FORGOTTEN.

Yes this would be helpful.

As a general point, these things are not necessarily 'forgotten', but may well be in the pipeline. Eraser 6 is a complete rewrite from scratch, and the tiny volunteer development team could not do everything at once. This means that your block capitals - which make Joel feel that you are shouting, sensitive soul that he is :) - are, in the circumstances, somewhat over the top ...

Bill3 wrote:Auto creation of a Restore Point after " Erase Unused Disc Space ", is an absolute MUST, AND IT WAS FORGOTTEN.

Now I'd not thought of that one, and at the moment I'm struggling to see the point of it. After all, a free space wipe leaves the system unchanged; by definition, it gets rid of what wasn't in the system. Plus System Restore is a resource hog and a privacy nightmare, but we'll not go there.

Bill3 wrote:Auto creation of a Log File is an absolute MUST, AND IT WAS FORGOTTEN.

It is created, in that you can go back and read the log of previous runs. You can also select, copy and paste parts or the whole of a log to a text file.

In the 6.0 builds, the start and end times of the run are not recorded. This means that any log that has no messages will be empty. In the 6.1 development builds, this has been fixed, and you will always get at least the start and end times. It might also be nice to have an Eraser 5 style record of the amount of data written, but I don't know how feasible this would be to implement.

Bill3 wrote:Facility to " Save Log File " is an absolute MUST, AND IT WAS FORGOTTEN.

It is automatically saved. That is, when Eraser doesn't crash :) . But the facility to save to a separate text file, without the copy and paste, would indeed be nice.

Bill3 wrote:Log file items need descriptions abbreviated, because they are so long that you cannot read the important part at the end.

Double click on a line item to read the full text. Or, for longer excerpts, copy and paste as aforesaid.

Bill3 wrote:Does the new version require less or more resources to run ?

Joel can answer this better than I, but, as Eraser 6 is built on a running process that is separate from the user program (and will, it is planned, in future be implemented as a service rather than as a process), the answer is almost certainly 'more'. How much that matters is more difficult to assess. You'll see plenty of problems documented on the forum, but very few if any reports that Eraser 6 slows systems down more than 5.x did.

Bill3 wrote: With Net Framework in the new version, would it be better to advise people with old computers. to stick to the old version 5.8.7 ?

5.8.8 is the last Version 5; and 5.7 is the last version that is usable on Windows 98/Me. On Vista, and Windows 7, I am sure that the answer is 'no', as Eraser 6 was written with the security model of the newer OSs in mind. It doesn't yet fix all the issues, but we can hope that it will do so, while the code base of version 5 is too messy to make that kind of change feasible. For XP users, I used to think that sticking with 5.x made some sense, but now I'm less sure. Version 5 is no longer supported for one thing. Plus, I've had Eraser 6 running on my old XP laptop (slow Celeron, 2GB RAM) for some time now, and it works fine.

I hope this response is helpful.

David
I am not an Eraser programmer, but a long-time user; my views may not be the same as those of the Eraser programming team.
Before posting, please read the top 4 topics in the Eraser FAQ, which already provide many of the answers users need.
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ERASER V6.0.7.1893 REVIEW 08-05-2010 UPDATE

Postby Bill3 » Wed May 12, 2010 8:30 pm

Guday, here's an addition to the review.

:D The average user does not need Eraser running all the time, because this prolongs boot, and unnecessarily consumes resources, so facility should be added, for :-

1 Eraser to boot , or not boot, at start up, in the settings.
2 The RC context menu, should automatically boot Eraser, and erase the Recycle Bin, just like the old Eraser, so why have you ruined this feature. this applies to other erasing tasks.
3 There is no need to have an unnecessary tab , when you have Eraser in the system tray, it just clutters up the GUI.
4 Finally, you need to re institute reporting after erasing, just for confirmation of the task, just like the old Eraser.

:oops: In other words go back to the old Eraser operator methodology, as it was, simple, efficient, and convenient. A lot of people design something, find it really works well, then smartarse themselves, by thinking something new will certainly be better. A classic example of this is, Thunderbird V3, and they have lost thousands of users, by literally, sabotaging their computers, with an over complicated email client, that doesn't work.

:D Regards Bill3.
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Hi Daviv and Joel

Postby Bill3 » Thu May 13, 2010 6:23 pm

:evil: Test comment, to see how it looks.
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Guday David and Joel

Postby Bill3 » Thu May 13, 2010 7:32 pm

:P My reviews or trials, are based on the ergonomic interface, and usability, for the average user, not experts like yourselves, who can do all these amazing things, like build computer programs.

:o For this reason, you are not qualified to asses the product, or comment on the review or trial. I'm not being facetious, and I fully sympathize with how upsetting it is to be told this. In all branches of engineering, it is a well knows fact, that the designers and constructors, always gives the product to a number of randomly selected users, for evaluation, and are deliberately excluded from any participation. I and other engineers, have designed things to absolute perfection, and using this test, found they are total rubbish., leaving us amazed and dumbfounded.

:shock: So, if I say something forgotten , or it isn't there, or does not work, these are facts, and you need to fix them, because that's how " the average user " sees it, not tell me I'm wrong, or use some weird process.

:idea: Here's an example :- In 1977, Austin Morris Motor Car Company, designed the revolutionary Princess. The designers heralded it, as way ahead of its time for styling, that gave it a very low coefficient of air drag, and so stability, and economy. Market research told them that consumers were not ready for it, and wanted the traditional styling of the Ford Cortina MK4. The designers were allowed to interceded in the trial for consumer demand, and convinced the company to proceed with production. What was the result ? Sales were a disaster of such epic proportions, I bet you have have never even heard of the Princess, but you certainly have the Cortina, because so many loyalty purchasers switched.

:D Regards Bill3. PS It took me a long time to write this, so I hope you appreciate its wisdom.
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Re: ERASER V6.0.7.1893 REVIEW 08-05-2010

Postby DavidHB » Thu May 13, 2010 7:43 pm

I don't know how many times Joel has answered this question on these forums. For good or ill, and for the reasons they have given, the Eraser team have gone down the path of splitting Eraser, so that the 'engine' runs as a process (eventually, it is hoped, as a service) while the UI runs as a normal app. I'd guess that so much coding effort has gone into this approach, that going back now is just not feasible with the resources available. The code is open source, so if someone wants to re-write it to fit a different programming model, they are free to do so.

That leaves those of us users who are not in the business of rewriting Eraser with the question; does the running background process affect the performance or stability of the system? My answer to that question is that I cannot detect any problems of that kind on my systems. So, while I know that some people have some sort of visceral antipathy to running processes, the truth is that, while most users may not need the running process (except to make Eraser work!), they will not come to any great harm by having it, either. My priorities for available development effort would not go into back-tracking to the Eraser 5 architecture, but into improving the way Eraser co-exits with the Windows security model, and in reinstating features of Eraser 5 (such as the CLI) which so far have been implemented incompletely or not at all in Eraser 6.

David

P.S. I remember the Princess (Joel won't, because he's only just out of short trousers and he's in Singapore :) ). The Princess didn't sell, because it was an ugly, unreliable motor car. The Cortina did sell, because, though it was nothing fancy, it was a usable motor car. Eraser 6.0.7, for all its faults, is a usable program, and it's free. My brand loyalty is based entirely on usability; if I find something better for my purposes, I'll use that.
I am not an Eraser programmer, but a long-time user; my views may not be the same as those of the Eraser programming team.
Before posting, please read the top 4 topics in the Eraser FAQ, which already provide many of the answers users need.
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Your comments David and Joel

Postby Bill3 » Thu May 13, 2010 8:19 pm

:) Thanks for the advice, here's some feedback :-

:arrow: 1 System Restore Points, during erase unused disc space, these are all erased, so Eraser Must, Must, Must be made to create a restore point automatically for novices, for obvious reasons. This is such basic common sense, I do not need any comment on it.

:mrgreen: 2 Log Files, thanks for the work around, but what happened to the simple method of V5.

:twisted: 3 Capital letters, are used as headings, or to pick out important items, sorry if I upset you Joel, you have done a brilliant job, along with David. I wish I had your talent.

:cry: 4 My present computer runs the new version faster than the old, and here's the spec :-

Jake is a 2003 built computer with performance parts, costing $5000 for the box only, still better than a lot of new ones. Motherboard Gigabyte GA7VA, Processor AMD Athlon XP 2000 1.67 GH equivalent 2.4 GH. Hard Drives Samsung 2x80 GB SP0802N new 2008 and 2005. Ram Trancend DDR400 1 GB with top quality chips cost $105 May 2009. Graphics Card Leadtech AGP8X Nvidia G force 4 ti 4200 64 MB with larger and improved cooling fan fitted. Power Supply Dick Smith 300 watt, Jake only needs 220 watts. Case fan 80 mm in front vented to top. All fans new or reconditioned Jan 2009. Operating System XP PRO SP3 32 Bit, Direct X 9. Comodo CIS V4, Firewall Antivirus Antimalware, servicing JV16, etc. Customized graphical user interface, so you don't get eye strain.

My new computer is a low end gaming computer.

:lol: 5 Just out of interest, why does the new version need Net Frame work. Simple answer please, as I'm not an expert like you.

:shock: 6 Sorry, if the truth hurts, but its only the empathetic, and kind people who tell you the truth. My ex-wife always said, I was an arrogant, rude, unpleasant, insensitive, big headed, and brutal with the truth, so you can commiserate with her. Mind you, she did carry on going out with me for four years, after I left her, but she did add, juvenile, pervert, because I had a 23 year old girlfriend for a while, sex maniac, selfish, boy does the list go on.

:oops: Regards Bill3.
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David unkindnes to the Princess

Postby Bill3 » Thu May 13, 2010 8:43 pm

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: " The Princess didn't sell, because it was an ugly, unreliable motor car. " :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

:oops: You very unkind chap. This just proves my point, this is how you saw it, as the average user, so you are right, not the designers. Were you in England at the time, you would have very soon learn't, that one small bump, and the Princess would buckle along its roof line, so it was a complete write off. Whilst the same bump, a Cortina would easily withstand, and be cheaply repaired.

:arrow: One panel beater friend of mine, had 5 minor crash, Princesses in his yard, unrepairable write off's, all less than a year old, and he just could not give them away.

:twisted: I am very grateful to you, Joel, and all the others, for providing your excellent Eraser, to me and everybody, on a benevolent basis. You have my highest admiration. My reviews are always aimed in positive criticism, towards helping improve the product, NOT SMARTARSEING PEOPLE.

:o Sorry, I did not understand your last comment, about how eraser runs, it was way beyond me.

:D Regards Bill3.
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Re: ERASER V6.0.7.1893 REVIEW 08-05-2010

Postby Joel » Fri May 14, 2010 11:05 am

DavidHB wrote:
Bill3 wrote:Does the new version require less or more resources to run ?

Joel can answer this better than I, but, as Eraser 6 is built on a running process that is separate from the user program (and will, it is planned, in future be implemented as a service rather than as a process), the answer is almost certainly 'more'. How much that matters is more difficult to assess. You'll see plenty of problems documented on the forum, but very few if any reports that Eraser 6 slows systems down more than 5.x did.
[/quote]I don't have hard figures, mainly because I have other issues which are currently more important that needs fixing, but I would imagine it should be around the same. If one thinks deeper, Eraser 5 was loaded in memory for as long Explorer was running (from the context menu, and that doesn't disappear if you disable the context menu extension.

DavidHB wrote:
Bill3 wrote: With Net Framework in the new version, would it be better to advise people with old computers. to stick to the old version 5.8.7 ?

5.8.8 is the last Version 5; and 5.7 is the last version that is usable on Windows 98/Me. On Vista, and Windows 7, I am sure that the answer is 'no', as Eraser 6 was written with the security model of the newer OSs in mind. It doesn't yet fix all the issues, but we can hope that it will do so, while the code base of version 5 is too messy to make that kind of change feasible. For XP users, I used to think that sticking with 5.x made some sense, but now I'm less sure. Version 5 is no longer supported for one thing. Plus, I've had Eraser 6 running on my old XP laptop (slow Celeron, 2GB RAM) for some time now, and it works fine.
People keep saying that the .NET framework is slow, but after using it for a little over 3 years, having developed using C++ prior to that (which is native code), .NET can be as fast as native code, and it most usually is.

Bill3 wrote:Guday, here's an addition to the review.

:D The average user does not need Eraser running all the time, because this prolongs boot, and unnecessarily consumes resources, so facility should be added, for :-

1 Eraser to boot , or not boot, at start up, in the settings.
That has already been dealt with in the earlier post by David.

Bill3 wrote:2 The RC context menu, should automatically boot Eraser, and erase the Recycle Bin, just like the old Eraser, so why have you ruined this feature. this applies to other erasing tasks.
It does. And please, "ruined" is a rather strong work to use. From where I am, it works just fine, and "ruined" is unjustified.

Bill3 wrote:3 There is no need to have an unnecessary tab , when you have Eraser in the system tray, it just clutters up the GUI.
See point 1.

Bill3 wrote: :oops: In other words go back to the old Eraser operator methodology, as it was, simple, efficient, and convenient. A lot of people design something, find it really works well, then smartarse themselves, by thinking something new will certainly be better. A classic example of this is, Thunderbird V3, and they have lost thousands of users, by literally, sabotaging their computers, with an over complicated email client, that doesn't work.
I don't need to provide counterexamples (David has done that). I'll just say that the old methodology was tried and tested, but too many things have changed since and it no longer works. For an uncomfortably increasing number of scenarios.

Bill3 wrote: :arrow: 1 System Restore Points, during erase unused disc space, these are all erased, so Eraser Must, Must, Must be made to create a restore point automatically for novices, for obvious reasons. This is such basic common sense, I do not need any comment on it.
I think if you wanted to erase the unused disk space, you'd also want to erase the copies of files deleted and cached in the System Restore folder (otherwise, why erase unused disk space? the more copies the unused disk space gets rid of, the better. That is after all the intent of you running the unused disk space erase.)

Bill3 wrote: :mrgreen: 2 Log Files, thanks for the work around, but what happened to the simple method of V5.
It wasn't good enough. Need I elaborate?

Bill3 wrote: :lol: 5 Just out of interest, why does the new version need Net Frame work. Simple answer please, as I'm not an expert like you.
This wasn't for technical reasons, it's just that Garrett and I felt that C# was easier to write and hence more people could help with the project. We've since been proven false.
Be sure to read the FAQ before posting. If you found this application useful, please contribute to Eraser's development.

I develop Eraser but I am not an employee of Heidi Computers Ltd. My views do not represent those of Heidi Computers Ltd.
Don't PM or Email me questions: they won't be answered any faster than on the forum and knowledge won't be accessible by all.
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Re: ERASER V6.0.7.1893 REVIEW 08-05-2010

Postby DavidHB » Fri May 14, 2010 11:35 am

One further point on the design decision issue, which is rather more to the point than fascinating old timer discussions about the Austin Princess ...

Joel uses Trac (to which we can all contribute) as his programming to do list. There is already an accepted bug (#299 if you're interested) to have the core process run only when required. When implemented, that, I think, should remove most of the user objections to the core design of Eraser 6. There are still discussions to be had about the remaining problems with Windows security, the UI and the feature set, and a considerable number of changes have already been implemented in the 6.1 development builds, which are not, unfortunately, yet stable enough for general use, but which are showing promise.

David
I am not an Eraser programmer, but a long-time user; my views may not be the same as those of the Eraser programming team.
Before posting, please read the top 4 topics in the Eraser FAQ, which already provide many of the answers users need.
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