24/7 working programs, like syncservers ?

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Re: 24/7 working programs, like syncservers ?

Postby Ghost62 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:15 pm

Then i have no ideas ... other than, maybe, that the original files was downloaded from the net using some torrent or P2P programs, maybe ... but on a different machine, "sparse" is still set ?

I mean ... all those files, i received them from a friend that have a big collection of them ... probably he got all them from the net using P2P programs ... but, all those files was first copied from his PC to an USB disk, and then copied from the USB disk to my PC, in the transfer process ... do you think that, also if they passed 2 cpoy operations (that, theorically, must "compact" all the files), they are still marked as "sparse" files, for the OS ?

If not this, then i really don't have any other ideas, about why they are marked this way :shock:
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Re: 24/7 working programs, like syncservers ?

Postby DavidHB » Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:40 pm

I think Joel's point is precisely that the sparse attribute will survive many copying operations. Also, if any of the data streams within the file are sparse, the system will regard the whole file as sparse. And, as far as I know, compression/decompression algorithms will not change this.

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Re: 24/7 working programs, like syncservers ?

Postby Joel » Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:23 pm

Yup, David got my point right.
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Re: 24/7 working programs, like syncservers ?

Postby Ghost62 » Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:00 pm

Hi, thanks i understood now, then (sorry, my English is self-learned, so it's not too good) ... residual "sparse" files was survived to multiple copy operations, and, i suppose, does not exist any way for eliminate this attribute in an alternative way ( Does Microsoft say nothing about this thing ? )

In the meantime, i made a test on a different disk (archive disk E), with 32GB of free space, launching the "Erase unused space" task manually, after a manual "standard" deletion of some files that was not erased on-the-fly ... most of them was, apparently, overwritten and eliminated with success (at least, FileScavenger does not find them, not yet tried with some more powerful data recovery software, but til now FileScavenger always worked well, so i think is a good result) ... still the task was marked as "completed with erors".

It took 3 hours, approximatvely, and the errors in the log was the following ones:

178 files had the following message as information (in black): " did not have its cluster tips erased because it is compressed, encrypted or a sparse file " - these files was not deleted files, and are still on the disk, so it's probably normal, being part of the "sparse" files.

one file had this as error (in red): " did not have its cluster tips erased because of the following error: The specified path, file name, or both are too long. The fully qualified file name must be less than 260 characters, and the directory name must be less than 248 characters" - i checked, it was an old file with really too long name, no problems.

One file had this as error (in red): " did not have its cluster tips erased because of the following error: Accesso negato. (Exception from HRESULT: 0x80070005 (E_ACCESSDENIED)) " (means access denied, in Italian - i discovered that this file was deleted from antivirus as containing a TrojanDropper script, and no more present in the indicatd folder ... is this normal ? )

12 files had this as error (in red): " did not have its cluster tips erased. The error returned was: Risorse di sistema insufficienti per completare il servizio richiesto" (means insufficent system resources for complete the requested service, in Italian ... not previously deleted files, don't know why about the error, i was normally working with the PC during all the time, and it gave me no errors about system resources, nor hangups, nor crashes)

23 files had this as error (in red): " did not have its cluster tips erased. The error returned was: Impossibile accedere al file. Il file è utilizzato da un altro processo. (Exception from HRESULT: 0x80070020) " (means impossible to access the file, the file is used from another process, in Italian ... i checked, they was all video files that i viewed in the previous days using mediaplayer ... i suspect that mediaplayer keep the files viewed as "in use" for long time, after you stopped to use it, cause i already had similar problems trying to delete some video files after viewed ... the message was always "impossible to delete, used from another program", and unlocker always had to unlock them from mediaplayer, before i was able to manually delete them, but i'm not sure about why nor how it act this way)

One error (in red) was: " Files in E:\System Volume Information did not have its cluster tips erased because of the following error: Access to the path 'E:\System Volume Information' is denied" - i suppose this is due to the OS.
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Re: 24/7 working programs, like syncservers ?

Postby Joel » Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:07 pm

Ghost62 wrote:One file had this as error (in red): " did not have its cluster tips erased because of the following error: Accesso negato. (Exception from HRESULT: 0x80070005 (E_ACCESSDENIED)) " (means access denied, in Italian - i discovered that this file was deleted from antivirus as containing a TrojanDropper script, and no more present in the indicatd folder ... is this normal ? )
Your antivirus could just be "quarantining" the file. Check your AV settings/quarantine.

Ghost62 wrote:12 files had this as error (in red): " did not have its cluster tips erased. The error returned was: Risorse di sistema insufficienti per completare il servizio richiesto" (means insufficent system resources for complete the requested service, in Italian ... not previously deleted files, don't know why about the error, i was normally working with the PC during all the time, and it gave me no errors about system resources, nor hangups, nor crashes)
This is weird. What file system is this drive?

Ghost62 wrote:unlocker always had to unlock them from mediaplayer, before i was able to manually delete them, but i'm not sure about why nor how it act this way)
Eraser has its own unlocker. It should be able to release the files. Did you enable it?

The rest of the messages are normal.
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Re: 24/7 working programs, like syncservers ?

Postby Ghost62 » Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:32 pm

Hi, i have the following settings:

Integrate into windows explorer: enabled
Default file and unused space methods: both set on single pass pseudorandom
Force locked files to be unlocked: enabled
Replace erased files ... (plausible deniability): disabled
Automatically remove tasks which run immediately ... : enabled
When a recurring task has missed ... : to execute it at next Eraser start

Plugin: Default erasure methods and PRNGS, enabled

nothing other changed ... the file system of all my drives is NTFS, standard Windows XP Pro installation (Italian language), with all the normal updates from Microsoft server (excluding internet explorer updates, i never use it preferring Firefox) ...

About the antivirus, it is set for always ask for the operation to do, and i always say it manually to delete the files (never quarantine), after have cheched the file and when i know that they are not false positives (Kaspersky antivirus 2011 ... before i had Panda, but it had the bad abitude to delete all the suspect files without ask, deleting also false positives and not-real-virus applications, so i changed it) ... i thoughd a thing, about this ... i'm not 100% sure, but i think the AV program warned me about the virused file when i was starting the Eraser task, so is possible that i said it to delete the file immediately AFTER that the task was initiated ... this may cause an error like this one ? ... i mean, if Eraser make a list of the files before start to overwrite, and AFTER this a file become deleted from another program ?
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Re: 24/7 working programs, like syncservers ?

Postby Joel » Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:48 pm

Ghost62 wrote:nothing other changed ... the file system of all my drives is NTFS, standard Windows XP Pro installation (Italian language), with all the normal updates from Microsoft server (excluding internet explorer updates, i never use it preferring Firefox) ...
Alright. Let's do something counterintuitive here: disable forced unlocking of locked files and see if these errors get reported again.

Ghost62 wrote:but i think the AV program warned me about the virused file when i was starting the Eraser task, so is possible that i said it to delete the file immediately AFTER that the task was initiated ... this may cause an error like this one ? ... i mean, if Eraser make a list of the files before start to overwrite, and AFTER this a file become deleted from another program ?
Yeah, it's possible. Anti virus programs are rather pesky.
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Re: 24/7 working programs, like syncservers ?

Postby Ghost62 » Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:17 am

Hi, i made that test, on the same disk, first used some windows program for open files (mediaplayer, word, excel, winrar, and some others), then closed all the programs (except the syncserver and firefox) and launched an erase unused space, with the option "forced unlocking of locked files" disabled ... now, apart the other normal informations, there are 87 files marked as error in red, with the same message, that cluster tips cannot be erased cause the file is used from another process, with "(Exception from HRESULT: 0x80070020)" at the end, and one with the error that say that the system resources was insufficent for complete the requested service (this one is an old 1Gb file in a game installation directory, called "shared materials.gcf", and is not in use ... never installed that game ... no idea about the content or the format gcf, maybe a proprietary compressed file ... anyway i don't care about the file itself, just this time only this one gave that specific error)

I noticed a different thing, anyway ... after few minutes from the task start, and for all the time that Eraser was running, the PC continued to work apparently regularly, EXCEPT for Firefox, that was unable to open or refresh any page ... this for all the time the task was running, no matter if i try to open a new page or refresh an opened one, Firefox remains in "waiting" state (the rolling icon on the tabs), with the usual message "connected with www ..." on the low left angle, and nothing other, nor connection, nor error or timeout messages ... also this is strange, the task ran for almost 3 hours, on a disk that have nothing to do with Firefox, and for all that time, the pages remained in waiting state, without the usual timeout errors ... and, once the task ended, i had to close it with "save and exit" option and then reopen it, for get it back and working ... looks as Eraser had "freezed" Firefox ... where instead other programs, like notepad, irfanview, foxitreader and others i tried to open, was working correctly.

No idea if that had something to do with Eraser. or if Firefox just freezed itself casually in the same time, for a coincidence ... the previous time, Firefox was a bit slower, but still working, this time not ... need to make some more tests about this, tomorrow that i can turn on and off anything freely, for be sure.

Syncserver program also continued to work, maybe a little bit slowly, but still running and connecting (anyway the disk i cleaned is not the syncserver disk, this test i can do it only tomorrow)
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Re: 24/7 working programs, like syncservers ?

Postby Joel » Sat Apr 14, 2012 1:20 pm

Probably Eraser touched Firefox's program files as it was running, which it didn't like. Cluster tip erasure on Windows is always hit-and-miss, since we're opening file handles to files which normally won't be opened in that manner.
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Re: 24/7 working programs, like syncservers ?

Postby Ghost62 » Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:47 pm

Ok, i had the occasion to make some tests, and these are the results.

First of all, tried with the syncserver disk ... with "forced unlocking" DISABLED, it gave me 178 errors that say cluster tips "could not be erased because the file was either compressed, encrypted or a sparse file.", and this WAS expected, 178 files are the whole work archive, and all are treated as "sparse" from the syncserver program ... it just slowed down in response speed, but continued to work for all the time.

Then i tried the same with "forced unlocking" ENABLED ... it took much more time, and randomly, 3 times, the syncserver reported an error saying that it was unable to access a file in the sync process ... it can be due to the fact that those files are used exclusively from the syncserver, so it mark them as "in use" for all the time, and trying to unlock them may have interferred with its normal work ? ... anyway, if so, i can simply left the "force unlocking" setting disabled.

I also repeated some times the "erase unused space" on the archive disk, with "force unlocking" ENABLED and Firefox working (usually 10 or 15 tabs opened, as my usual) ... 2 times it completed all without errors, and Firefox worked for all the time correctly ... 2 times it crashed Firefox at random moments (freezed, i had to stop manually the process in the task manager and restart it, and it restarted), and one time it totally crashed Firefox and, apparently, also something other in the OS processes (i mean, firefox freezed, but also after stopping the process, it was no more launching, nor some other programs (trying to launch different programs, i was getting some "fancy" error messages, like "memory cannot be in read state" or "runtime error in module ******* "(strings of hex characters), and file explorer also was really slowed down ... this time, i had to turn off and on again the PC, for regain all the functions) ... this happened in random order, not sequentially, and all the times i had opened all the same tabs, and was doing basically the same things, with Firefox.

Anyway, the archive disk is NOT the disk where Firefox and the OS are installed, so i have no ideas at all, about why it acted this way ... maybe Eraser involve in some way also the disk C when it clean the other ones ?

EDIT: or, maybe, is Firefox that save things also on disks that are not the system disk ? ... just had this doubt now, but i know nothing about where Firefox save their own files in reality ... i think is difficult, but who know ?
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Re: 24/7 working programs, like syncservers ?

Postby DavidHB » Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:16 pm

I can help with some of this.

First a question: is the syncserver drive on a physically separate disc or simply a partition?

Firefox saves its data in a profile which in Vista/Win 7 is by default located in the Local\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles sub-folder of the user's Appdata folder; if the path is other than the default, it can be found in the profiles.ini file located in the Roaming\Mozilla\Firefox sub-folder of Appdata.

Also, something that Joel has not mentioned in this thread though he has mentioned it previously, Firefox uses Just in Time compilation for some of its assemblies. I'd guess that could be resource intensive at a moment when Eraser is doing similarly resource intensive work. The excellent Resource Monitor in Windows 7 and Vista may help you pinpoint any bottlenecks. But the bottom line is that no system will ever muti-task well when a free space erase is being run in it.

For practical use, I would be inclined to disable erasure of cluster tips on the syncserver disc; it will not be adding a great deal to user security in the circumstances you describe.

David
I am not an Eraser programmer, but a long-time user; my views may not be the same as those of the Eraser programming team.
Before posting, please read the top 4 topics in the Eraser FAQ, which already provide many of the answers users need.
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Re: 24/7 working programs, like syncservers ?

Postby Ghost62 » Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:20 am

Thanks.

Yes, all the disks are phisical separate disks, a 500Gb for the system and programs, and 3 x 1Tb disks respectively for archive (E), backup (F) and syncserver (G) ... the G disk is not used from any other program.

Also ,i'm using XP Pro SP3 with all the last updates from MS server (except IE, i never used it, only Firefox ... thied also Iron, but still prefer Firefox), and i don't trust, nor like, any other of the OS made from MS, after XP PRO ... tried all them, including the last so-called "Windows8", but imho they are all a bunch of crap, bugs and "fancy screens" for hide problems, so i have no intentions to use them for serious work, in any way.

About the resources usage, i can install a trial copy of the last process explorer for check that, if needed ... or, maybe, there are better programs, for check this thing ?

Also, does Eraser have a debug mode ? ... i mean, a commandline that force it to generate a complete log, or something similar, so if you need some more informations i can send it ?

By the way, in the version that i have, there is no options in the setting page for disable cluster tips erasure (version is 6.0.9.2343) ...
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Re: 24/7 working programs, like syncservers ?

Postby DavidHB » Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:18 am

Taking your last point first, disabling of cluster tips in Eraser 6 is done in the 'Add Data' dialog when you set up a task (there is a box which is ticked by default; you just untick it).

The 6.1 development builds have the option, in the settings dialog, to enable the Black Box crash reporting plugin. This is described in a sticky topic in the Eraser Beta forum. For 6.0.9., you can often see the cause of a crash in the .NET messages in the Windows Event Viewer (I think that exists in XP, but can't check just now).

If Eraser doesn't crash, all the errors will be recorded in the log, and you can select one or more log entries, and copy and paste them to a text file.

The Windows Resource Manager is already installed with Vista and Win 7. There is a link to it from Performance Management, which is in Administrative Tools. You don't get that with XP. I am afraid I have to disagree with you about the relative merits of the various OSs; Win 7 is much more stable for me than XP ever was, and, once you tame UAC (with one setting), it is as easy to administer. With Windows 8 to be released shortly, XP (like 95, 98, Me and 2000 before it) will become increasingly non-viable as an OS for daily use. Things just don't stay the same in computing ...

David
I am not an Eraser programmer, but a long-time user; my views may not be the same as those of the Eraser programming team.
Before posting, please read the top 4 topics in the Eraser FAQ, which already provide many of the answers users need.
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Re: 24/7 working programs, like syncservers ?

Postby Joel » Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:44 pm

Distilling the last few posts, I think the only thing outstanding is the system freezing during erasures.

First: Where is your Firefox profile stored?
Second: Have you tried disabling your anti virus? Depending on how many CPU cores you've got, I/O could be a real bottleneck.
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Re: 24/7 working programs, like syncservers ?

Postby Ghost62 » Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:15 pm

Firefox profile is in the standard profiles directory on disk C, the same of the OS ... no, i have not tried disabling Kaspersky, the PC is connected 24/7, so i have AV and firewall always enabled.

Anyway. i can do a thing ... in the next day, i have to assemble another machine that i can use for a week or more, the client don't come here for get it til the end of the month ... i can install the same programs i have and a second disk for do some more specific tests, in this way, so it don't freeze the syncserver machine.
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